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tzafrir

@tzafrir@tooot.im

Debian (Linux, Free Software) user from Israel

דואר, XMPP ומטריקס: tzafrir@cohens.org.il

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argumento , to palestine group Spanish
@argumento@hispagatos.space avatar

Way before Hamas was a thing, back in the 70s or 60s, Israel, and western media for that matter, were already branding the Palestinians as "terrorists". Basically the west calls Palestinians "terrorists" whenever they fight back.

The PLO and Al Fatah were called terrorists, and they are secular nationalist movements. Anyone is called a terrorist but the terrorizing, apartheid Israeli regime.

@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @palestine @israel

Kidnapping airplanes? Is that terrorism?

faab64 , to palestine group

Best meme I've seen in a long time. Seeds are spreading all over the world.

Did they just went too far? they have to see the harvest of the seeds they are spreading.


@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@faab64 @palestine @israel
Once again this false map is used. In 1947 the UN resolution called the whole area "Palestine" and called for partitioning it into an Arab State and a Jewish State (as well as a small international area around Jerusalem and Bethlehem).

Sherifazuhur , to palestine group
@Sherifazuhur@sfba.social avatar

12-year-old Rimas from Gaza sells homemade "ka'ak" to afford her heart disease medication amid the hard conditions resulting from the Israeli occupation's horrific war on Gaza.
t.me/pal_Online9 @palestine

https://x.com/onlinepaleng/status/1786398397429088626?s=12&t=uM8me4uwdP7D0z4nanVVuw

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@RememberUsAlways @DavidBruchmann @Sherifazuhur @palestine @israel

Just stating the obvious: the UN did not really create the Geneva Conventions: most of them predate the UN.

The Hamas does not consider itself committed to the Geneva Conventions. Surprisingly, others also don't expect it to and let it get away with it.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @RememberUsAlways @DavidBruchmann @Sherifazuhur @palestine @israel

Nitpicking: This is a Venn diagram (except, maybe, that it is filled, if I should be supper nitty).

Whether or not it is a correct and/or useful model of reality is a different issue.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@DavidBruchmann @RememberUsAlways @Sherifazuhur @palestine @israel

I have no idea what you mean. In 1834 Yisrael Bak created a farm not far from Zefat, where he lived (and where there have been a Jewish community for centuries).

And what "Europeans"? You must mean the Albanian Muhamad Ali that ruled Egypt, and also got a hold of the country from 1830 to 1840.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@DavidBruchmann @RememberUsAlways @Sherifazuhur @palestine @israel

Jews may have been a small portion of the population of the country, but a large part of the population of Jerusalem. Indeed they were the first to settle outside of the walls of the city (1855) because the city was getting crowded.

All through the 18th and 19th Century Jews migrated to the country from various places (Eastern and Central Europe, various Arab countries.

>>>

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@DavidBruchmann @RememberUsAlways @Sherifazuhur @palestine @israel

On the "Eve of Zionism" steam was invented. Mark Twain's travel in 1867 was one of the earliest steam-powered travels to the area. Suddenly you could go around the world in 80 days. And get to Jerusalem in less than a year.

The British Consulate was not really involved in any of the early attempts of settlements by Jews. Those were private people acting on their own.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@DavidBruchmann @RememberUsAlways @Sherifazuhur @palestine @israel
The Balfour Declaration promised really nothing. It promised "a national home" (a meaningless term) "in" (explicitly: not the whole of) "Palestine" (a geographical term that was not well defined).

At the time "Palestinian" was not a common definitions. Of those who considered national movements, more considered themselves as "Arabic" or "Shami" ("Greater Syria").

faab64 , to palestine group

Amid growing speculation that the International Criminal Court could issue arrest warrants against officials in the coming days over the war against Hamas in , a White House spokesperson reiterates opposition for the investigation.

“The has no jurisdiction in this situation,” the spokesperson says.


@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@Christo @DavidM_yeg @faab64 @palestine @israel

Huh? He did not know what "British Mandate" is. In his time the whole area was occupied by the Ottoman Empire.

gee8sh , to Random
@gee8sh@mastodon.online avatar

Given 's unwavering support for and its genocidal apparatus, I am thinking of starting to transition out of its ecosystem.

It's gonna be challenging, primarily because I use an Android smartphone, and because I have been using a Gmail account for ages.

I welcome your tips!

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@DropBear @argumento @hanscees @sentient_water @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel

So, Jews who came to the country from various nearby countries are also "invading colonialists"?

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@Mary625 @sean122 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Well, that article is irrelevant to my arguments.

(As for the one who referred me to an inaccessible page: I have no account there and will not have)

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@ThinkIsrael @Mary625 @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Nope. Certainly not most of them (though a non-negligible part). There were various reasons for people to flee.

BTW: No Jew was allowed to live in parts that have become Arab. Not even in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, where Jews lived for centuries.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @ThinkIsrael @Mary625 @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

It's more "playing" (quite irresponsible as it is, giving a rifle to an untrained person. It's with no magazine and I hope it was vetted first to see that it has no bullet in the barrel. The first thing you should learn about using a rifle is that it can kill and that you should avoid it).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @ThinkIsrael @Mary625 @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

I described a picture. I have no idea if it is taken from a settlement.

The picture has nothing about hatred. It has nothing about Palestinians.

And then again, this picture was posted to divert attention from a video showing Hamas teaching children how to use weapons and that Jews are bad.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @sentient_water @PeterLG @Mary625 @argumento @DropBear @palestine @hanscees @israel

That article in Al-Jazeera is filled with half-truths and exaggerations. Yes, Arabs are not always portrayed that well in some children's books. But there are concerted efforts to change that. Cherry-picking everything that might look wrong is a great way to feel good, but not very handy beyond that.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

The funny thing is you (responders, not readers) seem to assume quite a few things about me. Oh well.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

It really depends on the terms of the ceasefire. My real concern is that no alternative will be established for the Hamas and we go back to the dynamics of a Hamas state in the Gaza Strip.

Right now it is only the actions of the US that push against that.

And this is why (among many other concerns) that I want to replace the Israeli government.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

> You are eager to attend protests against your current government in favour of retrieving hostages from HAMAS

Most of those protests are now a mix of both.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Gaza before Oct 2023 was a de-facto state. It had a government, a well-defined border, guarded by a military force, collected taxes, police force, etc. It did not have its own currency, but neither does e.g. France.

De-facto. Not internationally recognized. And being separate helped hampering the establishment of a single Palestinians state.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

In one sense it was never a state. The Hamas government never really assumed responsibility of the population. The population was Someone Else's Problem (mostly UNRWA). They spent the taxes they collected on themselves and on their military forces.

Indeed, if Palestinians were to follow that model, there would never be a Palestinian State.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Netanyahu does not really want an end to the war. But then again, Hamas does not an end to the war either. And it is not keen on giving up its hostages either.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @argumento @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

Rafah Crossing has been in control of the Gaza government from 2008 to 2017. At that time it decided to cede control officially to the Ramallah government (but still maintain practical control).

The other side is under Egyptian control, naturally, because it it is a border crossing.

>>>

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @argumento @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

The Erez and Kerem Shalom crossings with Israel have been under such triple control (Gaza, Ramallah, Israel) since 2007.

And of course the tunnels to the Egyptian Rafah were all under Hamas control (and paid taxes to Hamas).

So if you wanted to get in and out of the Strip, you had to get the approval of the Hamas government.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @argumento @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

Well, Huthis occasionally bombarded Saudi Arabia. Does this mean it is not a state?

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

The West Bank aside. I never claimed that the Ramallah Palestinian government rules a de-facto state. The West Bank is not the Gaza Strip.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @argumento @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @israel @palestine @DropBear @hanscees @Mary625

Before Oct 2023, Israeli troops did not enter Gaza (except as part of the two previous wars, after long escalations, and even then: not that much) - 2008 and 2014. Only one of those was in Netanyahu's time.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@rato @argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

No monopoly over violence? If you said anything bad against Hamas, you would be taken to an interrogation and likely your knees would not survive the ordeal. There's a reason there's not much criticism on the Hamas from within the Strip.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @Mary625 @palestine @israel @argumento @gee8sh @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @hanscees @DropBear @ThinkIsrael

Gazans could leave Gaza if the Egyptians allowed it (or if they paid someone on the Egyptian side. In addition to paying someone on the Gazan side, because they are very honest).

>>>

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @Mary625 @palestine @israel @argumento @gee8sh @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @hanscees @DropBear @ThinkIsrael

Generally for one to cross from Gaza to Israel (through Erez) one would need clearance from Hamas, Ramallah government and Israel. And that one would be automatically suspected by both Israel and Hamas as spying for the other side (which was occasionally the case).

This is a border between two bitter enemies. Not fun to cross. Kind of Check Point Charlie.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @ThinkIsrael @Mary625 @hanscees @palestine @DropBear @argumento @sentient_water @gee8sh @PeterLG @israel

The thing is, people only complain about Israel, and never about the Egypt.

Egypt did allow certain number Gazans to cross the border. The government of Egypt doesn't really like the Hamas government very much.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @israel @DropBear @gee8sh @argumento @sentient_water @GregDance @hanscees @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @palestine

Is India a state? Even though the Chinese military forces invaded there in the 1960s? (a small bit near the border, you know).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @israel @GregDance @DropBear @sentient_water @Mary625 @PeterLG @palestine @argumento @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @hanscees

Nope. I guess you'll never learn.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @israel @GregDance @DropBear @sentient_water @Mary625 @PeterLG @palestine @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @hanscees

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @israel @GregDance @DropBear @sentient_water @Mary625 @PeterLG @palestine @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @hanscees

I would have explaining. However someone who calls me such names is not listening so I won't bother.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @israel @hanscees @DropBear @argumento @palestine @Mary625

Why is that a condition? If you want to go from country A to country B, you need country B's permission. There are many cases where this permission is granted semi-automatically, and thus you tend to ignore it.

When country A and country B don't like each other, it's a problem. Try to see what it take for Indians to visit Pakistan and vice versa.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @hanscees @GregDance @Mary625 @sentient_water @israel @argumento @palestine @gee8sh @DropBear

(Past tense. Pre Oct 2023)
They could travel by land though Egypt. Some of them. Why not more? Because of their government that failed to negotiate it.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @sentient_water @PeterLG @palestine @DropBear @argumento @israel @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @gee8sh

It seems that quite a few countries don't like the Hamas government.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @argumento @sentient_water @DropBear

Well, That's indeed Netanyahu's policy (unlike Olmert, the PM in 2006-2008 that was against Hamas and was working on a peace agreement with Abu Mazen).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @israel @DropBear @PeterLG @Mary625 @argumento @sentient_water @gee8sh @hanscees @GregDance @ThinkIsrael @palestine

Why do you think "Egypt helps Israel"? Egypt is an independent country with its own interests that only partially align with those of Israel. It kept the border closed because it is its own interest.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

That's a misconception. Israel somewhat supported islamists in the Gaza Strip in the 1980s because they seemed harmles and to counter the PLO. However, that was before the Intifada started, and hence before Hamas was created.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @sentient_water @palestine @DropBear @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @hanscees @israel @argumento @Mary625

No. My point is that the fix for that is a single Palestian government with Hamas out of the way.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

In retrospect, no. Recall that up until the mid 1980s, the Fatah was an active terrorist organization. Other secular organizations (e.g. the Popular Front) never gave up terrorism.

But Israel did negotiate the Oslo Accords less than a decade later with the PLO.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

Sure, so planed hijacked by Black September Organization (a front for Fatah) were acts of freedom? Passengers were freed by the freedom fighters from the air crew?

Leila Khaled, seen in this picture, is one of those freedom fighters. She was part of one successful and one failed such hijack.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @sentient_water @palestine @DropBear @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @hanscees @israel @Mary625

I'm not sure I understand the question. There are very few people in Israeli prisons since before 1990 ("before Hamas was a thing").

Israel was close to reach an agreement with the gevernment of the Palestinian Authority in 2008. But then Netanyahu came. Now both sides are more in blame-game mode.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@ThinkIsrael @skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

The Oslo Accords were designed as a temporary agreement for five years. A final agreement was to be signed by 1999.

There's a general agreement among both Israeli and Palestinians whose fault it was that such an agreement was not signed (the other party).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @gee8sh @palestine @hanscees @israel @PeterLG @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @sentient_water @DropBear

The siege on Gaza began in 2007 after Hamas took over. Not in 2005.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @sentient_water @GregDance @Mary625 @palestine @hanscees @israel @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @DropBear @PeterLG

Repeating this statement does not make it a fact.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@RD4Anarchy @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @sentient_water @PeterLG @palestine @DropBear @argumento @israel @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @gee8sh

Not Hamas. The Ramallah government.

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