Attempting to correct sync with lemmy.world

Squizzy ,

Ah the USA capitulating to terrorists and war criminals all in the name of money.

FriendBesto ,

When the Lobby has such pull on the White House over blatant genocide, do not doubt who is in or is trying to be in real control. So much for conspiracy theories.

frauddogg ,
@frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml avatar

https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/2e52f4f8-de90-42e0-9dd9-59d3e6946057.png

Cowbee ,

Settler colonialism is one of the most vile, disgusting crimes against humanity, and it is our duty to move in favor of liberation for all peoples.

pingveno ,

The world power needs to understand that it has crossed the line

So showing any backbone is crossing the line? Wow.

rottingleaf ,

I think for a world power such language should have been a reason to double down on punishing those little punks.

zkrzsz ,

There's useless and then there's you people.

wombat ,

all palestinian violence against israel is self-defense.

Zuberi ,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Vote socialism in 2024 or you're getting the orange

knightly , (edited )
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

We're getting the orange anyway because the Democrats would rather preserve their AIPAC funding than win an election.

And besides; the Socialist Party is an FBI front organization, the PSL is content to ignore Russia's war on Ukraine, and even though the Greens have decent politics they're still being used by everyone as a wedge to split the Democrat vote in favor of Republicans. There's no way to vote for socialism that isn't self-defeating.

TokenBoomer ,

What information do you have that the PSL is a front?

Zuberi ,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

LOL

TokenBoomer ,

All I could find is a sussy substack and Reddit posts. It could be true.

knightly ,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

The PSL are state socialists, their entire reason for existing is to be a front for state-aligned interests.

TokenBoomer ,

That’s what I’m seeing too. They have to say that, or be labeled as domestic terrorists. Any openly revolutionary party is a threat.

knightly ,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

Indeed. Parties which actually pose a threat to the current establishment aren't permitted to organize.

Playing "Spot the Fed" was a popular passtime at Occupy.

pingveno ,

If anything, the PSL is a front for Russia, given that Russia has featured them on Russian state media. But I don't see them as being a threat to the Democrats. A quick look at their Wikipedia page shows that the most percentage votes they ever got in an election was 40%, and that was just 57 votes in a college town.

It's a pity the US doesn't have a parliamentary system. It would make so much more sense to have something like Greens, Socialists, and Democrats forming a coalition.

frauddogg ,
@frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml avatar

the PSL is content to ignore Russia’s war on Ukraine,

Mmmh, chauvinist take. I wouldn't want you in any of my organizations anyway until some self-crit was done.

local_taxi_fix ,

Is Biden the socialism?

go_go_gadget ,

Oh man, if socialism were on the ballot I'd happily vote for it. Maybe I'll write that in when I go vote.

darkphotonstudio ,

Lots of Russian trolls in here trying to get Trump elected. Hey guys, how’s the pay at the Internet Research Agency?

Crikeste ,

Typical liberal. “I won’t face the horrors being perpetuated by the guy I’m trying to force you to vote for! You’re the bad person! 😡”

You’re honestly making the accelerationist vote look appetizing. And you should be terrified of that.

darkphotonstudio ,

Not a liberal and I don't live in the US. You probably don't either.

Crikeste ,

I do. And I realize it is the true terrorist.

What is a terrorist?

A person using fear and violence to get you to believe what they believe in.

Tell me where the citizens of the many coups America had committed, asked for America to commit said coups?

kfc ,

Checking in from the Moscow Central Shitpost Infiltration Unit, where all 12 of us are working overtime to post on lemmy.ml and swing the election in favor of Orange Man.

you fucking moron

Omega_Haxors ,

He's got a "complicit in genocide" reputation to upkeep after all.

FreudianCafe ,

More like co-author

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

Tell you what - I'm surprised how many people think Trump of all people is going to somehow handle to both Ukraine and Israel better than Biden...

For one, Trump is so overtly a Russian asset it isn't even funny. No enemy of Russia would speak of them the way Trump has both during and after his presidency. Combined with negative comments he has made about Ukraine and the war, he absolutely will cut any and all US assistance to Ukraine - his best effort to hand Ukraine to Russia on a silver platter.

And you'd be mistaken if you think the Palestinians would fare much better considering in the few public statements he's made about Gaza show him openly supporting both the actions of Israel and Netanyahu, calling on them to finish it quicker.

If your reaction to Biden's weak descalation of Gaza is to allow someone who's public intentions are even worse to take office, then all I can say is I hope that high-horse was worth it.

Gigate ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    naught ,

    Oh look, a completely fallacious and divisive comment

    Th4tGuyII ,
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    Damn, you must've dug deep for that scathing nickname - but do you seriously think I'm wrong?

    It doesn't matter what could have happened, who could have done what, the situation is that your choices are Biden or Trump, and one of those is a whole lot worse than the other, despite what some other people commenting on this post think.

    kfc ,

    Trump has literally done nothing as remotely as evil as Biden's relentless support of Israel's genocide. Would it be worse under Trump? Potentially, but Trump isn't president right now

    Th4tGuyII ,
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    The word you're looking for there is "yet", and that "yet" would be doing a whole lot of heavy lifting.

    I'll defer back to my initial comment - if you want to let Trump in and find out, you'd better be ready to shut it when he does worse.

    kfc ,

    You cannot beat anyone over the head with a moral cudgel when you are supporting genocide. Period. Frankly, supporting Biden -- perhaps the most ardent Zionist in American politics -- is so morally despicable that it makes me feel physically ill. If you the status quo is acceptable to you, then by all means continue giving it your approval.

    Don't you fucking dare, however, suggest that people refusing to hand their vote to that evil cretin are somehow the ones OK with what's going on in Palestine.

    Th4tGuyII ,
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    Oh, I'll sure as shit beat you over the head with it until it goes in - neither major candidate up for election is going to stop the genocide anytime soon, and since for most intents and purposes we exist in a two-party system,the only thing your protest vote is going to do is hand Trump the keys to the castle.

    If you want to let that happen and stick with your "he hasn't done worse" shtick, then by all means do so, but you're only fooling yourself. Everything he has said publicly, and what he did during his last presidency (see reply by @wildncrazyguy), indicates he will do worse given the opportunity...

    As I said before, if you really do sit there and refuse to vote, and if it does come to pass that Trump gets in and does what he says/indicates he wants to do, I hope you realise that you willingly participated in letting that happen.

    naught ,

    Spoiler: they think the horsey is worth it

    OccamsTeapot ,

    Guess who's taking about Trump here? NOBODY.

    You have absolutely no idea how weak this line of argument makes Biden look. Oh you'd be better than literally the worst person to have ever been president? Wow omg I can't wait to vote for you. Talk about a low fucking bar.

    Dkarma ,

    What your other choice, there, genius.

    OccamsTeapot ,

    Is this post about the election? Or the fucking CURRENT PRESIDENT'S decisions?

    Edit: the other choice, which should worry everybody, is not voting. Doesn't matter if it's illogical, lots of voters are illogical

    HerrVorragend ,
    @HerrVorragend@lemmy.world avatar

    Isn't there a possibility to vote for a third / minor party?

    If yes, this would be the best choice instead of not voting.

    ganksy ,
    @ganksy@lemmy.world avatar

    The third (minor) parties are just spoiler candidates put in place or at least supported by the two major parties.

    OccamsTeapot ,

    Yeah of course that is possible. With the US system though it seems like there is literally no point. If you don't want trump you should vote for Biden, that is the only choice.

    But the fact that this is brought up every time Biden does something shit or supports a genocide or whatever is what I take issue with. The election has made people too wary to criticise him and they are apparently blind to how stupid this looks. Like they learned nothing whatsoever from 2016.

    Anyway I'm not American anyway so don't worry about it. The situation is the same in the UK except Labour is comfortably going to win anyway despite having a dog shit candidate. Biden I'm not so sure, and that worries me.

    Th4tGuyII , (edited )
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    That's odd, because if you bothered to look any further down you actually would see comments talking about Trump, and there were more before.

    But that aside, you'll find that's because I'm not advocating for Biden - any more progressive candidate would've been better, but that's not what we got. What I AM advocating is against Trump - I hardly think I need to explain why.

    Since it's basically impossible for an independent to win, if you don't want Trump, your only option is Biden. That's it, whether we like it or not.

    OccamsTeapot ,

    Since it's basically impossible for an independent to win, if you don't want Trump, your only option is Biden. That's it, whether we like it or not.

    I agree.

    But this post is about a thing Biden has done. Surely you can see how so many people jumping right to this "lesser of two evils" argument in response to something like this might look like an attempt to shield him from criticism?

    Honestly what could Biden actually do that would change the choice on election day? Unless he transforms into literally Hitler it is kind of a given that any reasonable person needs to vote for him, surely?

    Th4tGuyII ,
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    As I said before, I was focusing on all the replies that were around when I first commented that were commenting on/advocating for Trump - that is why I said "I'm surprised how many people think Trump of all people is going to somehow handle to both Ukraine and Israel better than Biden", because that is the sentiment I saw.

    I can see how that would look like an attempt to shield him from criticism, but at the same time I don't think I'm wrong in saying it doesn't really matter - unless you want Trump in the Whitehouse again, Biden is the only choice...

    I'm not saying I like the fact that the only two candidates we have are basically "allow the genocide to continue for the foreseeable future" or "escalate the genocide, and let Russias do what they want to Ukraine", but that is what we're stuck with.

    freagle ,

    Blue MAGA is so ridiculous. Who was the first president to ever approve arm sales to Ukraine? That's right, Trump. The Obama/Biden administration said it was too provocative to sell arms to Ukraine and would escalate tensions with Russia. And then Trump took office and broke the taboo because he didn't care if Russia found it threatening. Good luck fitting that into your "Trump is so clearly Russian asset" box.

    You're worried about Trump cutting aid to Ukraine? Guess what, it's already been getting cut. That's the direction this is headed. Because the president doesn't decide these things unilaterally - it comes from the DOD. You think the DOD is just gonna watch presidents do whatever they want around the world and just "oh well guess we die now"? No. You think Biden personally developed the strategy for how Israel advances US interests in the region? No. These things operate on the scale of decades, not 4 years at time. The presidents just choose between the options the JCOS provide them.

    And as for the genocide of Palestinians, it's going to happen no matter what, this has been demonstrated clearly. Choosing presidents will not change the outcome. We need to end the existing power structure, not participate in it.

    brain_in_a_box ,

    Trump is so overtly a Russian asset

    This is fash shit.

    Th4tGuyII ,
    @Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

    Tell you what, it'll take a lot more than a pithy remark to convince me that I'm wrong about Trump being compromised by the Russians

    brain_in_a_box ,

    I'm aware that fascists are all but impossible to rehabilitate by words alone.

    aberrate_junior_beatnik ,

    If people took half of the energy they spend shaming people for not adhering to the two-party system and turned it to pressuring Biden to be a better candidate he'd have switched positions by now

    Infamousblt ,
    @Infamousblt@hexbear.net avatar

    I doubt it. Biden doesn't give a hoot about what his voting base thinks or wants because they're going to mindlessly vote for him no matter how many genocides he does

    D61 ,

    Disagree, if the centrists, liberals, and Vote Blue No Matter Who crowd worked him over half as hard at they work over us there'd be no reason not to give in.

    Infamousblt ,
    @Infamousblt@hexbear.net avatar

    Except for the main reason of "all of Biden's donors would leave him." Neoliberal democracy has nothing to do with voters, it has everything to do with fundraisers. If Biden loses his fundraisers to someone else, the voters will follow, because that money will buy the propaganda to move them. This is how neoliberal democracy works. To think otherwise is idealist; it has never worked that way and it never will work that way under the current system.

    D61 ,

    A chunk of the funders hedge their bets though, right?

    And what organization that has spent potentially MILLIONS of dollars at this point is just going to walk away from their investment instead of allowing their pet capital critter a bit of slack on the leash to give some crumbs to the unwashed masses to quiet us down?

    assassinatedbyCIA ,

    But how do you pressure him into being a better candidate when the only threat you have against him, i.e. voting him out, is held hostage by the fact that if you do vote him out an even more extreme radical will get in power?

    Dkarma ,

    Almost like we need ranked choice voting and eliminate the electoral college so we can have more than 2 choices.

    cheesebag ,

    Democrats consistently support & pass RCV, while Republicans repeal & ban it. If you want RCV, you need to support Dems in the meantime.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    Not even remotely true:

    On March 28, a District of Columbia Superior Court dismissed a lawsuit filed by the Democratic Party to stop an initiative from qualifying.  The initiative hasn’t even gathered the signatures yet, yet the Democratic Party had been hoping to block it.  The judge said the lawsuit isn’t ripe, and could be filed again if the initiative qualifies and passes.  The initiative also would change the law to let independent voters vote in partisan primaries, but it is not an initiative that abolishes the ability of parties to have nominees.

    So tired of this myth

    It wasn't just Republicans who opposed the system. Democrats were in power in some cases and also opposed it. That's why we got ranked-choice, it was done through a ballot initiative because neither party wanted to implement it or to pass a law that would implement it.

    Kuori ,
    @Kuori@hexbear.net avatar

    biden has been a zionist for probably longer than you've been alive

    you're not going to push him left. ever.

    Alaskaball ,
    @Alaskaball@hexbear.net avatar

    Fucking genocide loving liberal

    protist ,

    If I'm reading this correctly, this decision was made because Smotrich threatened to sever all Israeli banking relations with the Palestinian Authority, which since the PA depends on Israeli banks to function, would have ruined the Palestinian government in the West Bank. I don't like that this is how it's going down, but definitely see the rationale, and don't think the Biden Admin is wrong to protect the PA. There's plenty criticism to heap on the US for their relationship with Israel, but I don't think this is one of them. The problem here is Smotrich and the Netanyahu government.

    Alsephina OP ,

    The PA is pretty much entirely controlled by the Israeli military now. It being shut down might actually allow orgs that actually serve Palestinian interests to take power.

    Regardless, this is obviously just an excuse to stop the sanctions. Israel is entirely dependent on the US and these "threats" are toothless. If Biden gave a fuck at all, he would simply threaten to cut off funding to Israel in return.

    protist ,

    The "might" in that sentence is doing some heavy lifting. I think the collapse of the PA would lead to worsening chaos in the West Bank, especially financially, and would directly harm Palestinians.

    Alsephina OP ,

    Not at all. You can remove that first paragraph entirely and my point comes across just fine.

    protist ,

    There wasn't a second paragraph when I responded lol.

    I still seriously disagree with you, a disruption of the Palestinian Authority would 100% be worse for the Palestinian people in the West Bank. Which "orgs" do you think are suddenly going to step in and be better?

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    That other org is literally Hamas.

    vind ,
    @vind@lemmy.world avatar

    Not in the west bank

    protist ,

    You got downvoted, but you are correct.

    crusa187 ,

    This is just a little something to keep in mind the next time some Israeli tries to argue that “it’s not an occupation.”

    doom_and_gloom ,
    @doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml avatar

    So they threatened to hurt themselves more to get him to back down? PA is the only thing keeping the West Bank militants at bay. That's absolutely pathetic on Biden's part.

    protist ,

    I think you misunderstand, Netanyahu and his allies want extremists in charge. They have spent the last two decades trying to delegitimize the PA because they are a moderate Palestinian government, and the same two decades propping up Hamas. When extremists are in charge, Netanyahu knows he can more easily justify killing Palestinians and taking Palestinian land

    doom_and_gloom ,
    @doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml avatar

    The more secular resistance started to breakdown in the 90s, which led to Israel's strategy to support the election of a more fundamentalist authority for the Gaza Strip. The authority they assisted into power was Hamas. At the same time, they propped up the PA in the West Bank. The goal was to divide and conquer: Diminish the united Palestinian identity, and convince non-militants to stand on the sidelines while the militants went to fight and die in the Gaza Strip. Once the Strip is dealt with, they will only have to deal with the non-militants in the West Bank, which in this time has grown reliant on Israel's part of their relationship. Due to playing a part in this, many claim that the PA leaders are corrupt and have sold out Palestine.

    Now, while they are struggling and overstretched in the Gaza Strip, why would Israel want to get rid of the self-destructively pacifist symbolic leaders of the West Bank? That's my thoughts on it.

    rottingleaf ,

    The problem here is Smotrich and the Netanyahu government.

    Can they just send a few killer drones after the two guys mentioned? It's fair game, USA uses those outside of its territory, Israel uses those outside of its territory.

    Of course there's going a shitfest of indignation from Israelis, but that'll be in any situation which is not successful ethnic cleansing with no consequences.

    PowerCrazy ,

    More concisely, the problem is Israel.

    Jaysyn ,
    @Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

    Because Israel is will blackmail the USA and expand their genocide even more.

    The American folding comes in the wake of Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich's threat to collapse the Palestinian economy, as revealed in Israel Hayom

    And now these fascists will use that as a threat to extort the USA at every step. They must be completely cut off from US aid.

    Viking_Hippie ,

    And now these fascists will use that as a threat to extort the USA at every step. They must be completely cut off from US aid.

    Absolutely spot on! #NoWarButClassWar ✊️

    Cuttlefish1111 ,

    BDS is the only way

    doom_and_gloom ,
    @doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml avatar

    One time they got more aid by threatening to nuke their allies. Luckily, Kissinger is finally dead.

    anticurrent ,

    The world's biggest military power bending backwards to a small country like Israel should be enough proof that the US is run by the Zionist Diaspora. they have captured power in the US from both political parties.

    Do you want to vote for genocide or for genocide because either way your are getting genocide.

    dan42O ,

    They stole the money to blackmail, buy voters and politicians.

    tamal3 ,

    Don't bring the "Jews control the world" antisemitic BS around here. Yeah, something's up with the US government that I don't totally understand, but you don't have to latch onto crazy and hateful ideologies. That just makes more problems.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    The US and Israel are both part of the same imperial project. Israel is the US's unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East and its laboratory for surveillance and occupation and the US is Israel's arms depot and money spigot, it's a mutual relationship that both countries benefit from.

    The US doesn't control Israel, Israel doesn't control the US, they're just partners working towards a mutual goal of settler occupation.

    tamal3 ,

    I don't disagree with any of your recent statements. However, your first statement reads as an antisemetic dogwhistle, a la space lasers and Soros conspiracies, which is likely why you're getting so many downvotes.

    anticurrent ,

    So AIPAC isn't a thing to you ? or Rich American Zionist donors like the current US ambassador to japan Rahm Emanuel who was funneling money to the Israeli Propagandists Cochav Elkayam Levy who is behind the Hamas ‘Mass Rape’ Narrative Exposed As Fraud. their is no Hate in admitting that Many Zionists occupy key positions of power in many countries and parliaments like US, UK and Canada and are working to advance Israel interest.

    The liberal left has become very stupid and naive by labeling everything as hate, because they are unable to face the facts, by refusing to get into merky territory, they are keeping the working class under the illusion of a fair democratic system, while in reality they have those who pull the strings keep the status quo.

    NoneOfUrBusiness , (edited )

    Trump 2024 anyone (edit: I'm not cheering him on, just stating a fact)?

    Edit: I only read the headline then came back and read the article and just... What the actual fuck?

    Did Biden, the president of the most power country in the world, just listen to a threat from their protectorate? What the fuck is going on here? How do people see shit like this and think "oh yes this is fine"?

    protist ,

    Did you read what they threatened to do?

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    Yes, but the idea that he threatened at all in public is ridiculous. For better or worse if this was any other country that man would be in deep shit. See: Pakistan.

    Phanatik ,

    Dude, Pakistan had politicians openly saying they'd ethnic cleanse the country of Pathans and Pashto people.

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