originalucifer Admin , (edited )
originalucifer avatar

they arent related.

ie, if men are so terrible why do we have them teach children? the entire premise is insipid... child-like in its ignorance.

rab OP ,

Exactly. The man vs bear question is meant to spark gender warfare rather than actually be answered with common sense

If the majority hates men so much why not just go all the way and kill them all?

xmunk ,

Your use of the phrase "gender warfare" is also meant to spark gender warfare. That article was extremely hyperbolic, your response is also hyperbolic (though less so).

Also, it certainly wasn't intended to spark gender warfare... it was just an extremely poor expression of, what I imagine, is genuine concern.

rab OP ,

If that wasn't its intention the question would be worded differently

xmunk ,

A lot of people are shit communicators, not every journalist is good at their job - news at eleven.

rab OP ,

The question wasn't originally posed by a journalist it was from a famous tiktok account

xmunk ,

Oh, I wasn't even aware of that... I feel like we can double down on the "people are shit comminicators" point then.

rab OP ,

The tiktoker is a good communicator. He knew this question would explode and in my opinion he shouldn't have asked it

xmunk ,

The tiktoker is effective at getting views and stirring controversy, but from the follow up tweet they expected to start a reasoned discussion with their article. The article itself is an interesting nuanced discussion but the title is pure fucking flamebait.

HubertManne ,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

to be fair. wild animals are not all that dangerous in the modern age.

rab OP ,

But the question says 'in the woods' implying actual wilderness

Corkyskog ,

There is an average of 3 deaths by bears accross North America per year, meanwhile 300 people are estimated to be murdered on federal wilds and national parks.

rab OP ,

And there are at least 4 billion men in the world, way more than 300 times the total number of bears in the world

There are also a lot of people who vanish in the woods without a trace, because nature is scary as fuck and will clean up leaving zero evidence

Corkyskog ,

How many men are specifically on federal protected wildlands or parks?

If you want to compare it your way, then fine. There are roughly 40 bear attacks globally and 427,500 murders committed by men. There are ~2,000x more men than bears globally. So adjusting, the bear murder rate is 80,000, meaning men are still more than 5x more likely to murder you.

Nemo ,

A lone human in an isolated situation where you don't expect them and can't seek help is scarier than a lone bear in a situation where you can reasonably expect them and hopefully prepared with that in mind.

There's a reason pepper spray is stronger than bear spray.

rab OP ,

Um bear spray is way stronger than pepper spray that's why they make you sign a waver saying you won't use it on people (in canada at least)

Also I carry bear spray more for human threats than bear threats for the record

gregorum ,
@gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

No, it isn’t. Pepper spray is illegal in Canada. That’s why they make you sign a waiver when you buy bear spray, to acknowledge that you won’t use it illegally on people.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Humans irregardless of gender are more dangerous than bears because humans can use weapons and are much more intelligent. They also kill without provocation or reason.

Bears are scary, but humans are scarier. That's why we're the dominant lifeform of this planet.

rab OP ,

I bet the answers would be different if the question was 'black man' instead of 'man' haha

BigMikeInAustin ,

I'm struggling to find a non-racist meaning to this.

rab OP , (edited )

I'm saying it's ok to be prejudice towards one but not the other, because this question is simple misandry

Nobody is going to be a racist when asked this question but for some reason they are comfortable with saying men in general are violent animals

ShepherdPie ,

Who is "they" in this scenario other than some strawman in your mind?

rab OP ,

Literally every person saying bear without hesitation

ShepherdPie ,

Are these people in the room with you now?

xmunk ,

Humans have a higher danger ceiling - I agree. We're capable of extreme violence that non-humans can never accomplish... but the vast majority of humans are socially adept and won't instigate needless violence. I think your argument is the absolute worst defense of this article... would you rather be in a cramped coffee shop with twenty humans or twenty bears? If you'd genuinely prefer the bears I simply don't comprehend your world view.

Anticorp ,

True, but that's a completely different message than what OP shared.

Today ,

A bear can kill you, but they can't buy guns, so they probably can't kill more than one or two of you at a time.

rab OP ,

I don't know of any gun stores in the woods

BruceTwarzen ,

Are you actually mentally ill?

rab OP ,

You're not?

RightHandOfIkaros ,

If we are considering death by bear or death by gun, I think most people would probably choose death by gun. Ever seen what a bear does?

Devi ,

Generally leave you alone if you leave them alone?

Nemo ,

What about my right to arm bears????

BigMikeInAustin ,

The National Bear Association?

athos77 ,

Troll OP is trollish, news at eleven. Bye, Felicia!

rab OP ,

I'll still help you out if you cross me in the woods, I forgive you

jeffw , (edited )

Who specifically said “men are more dangerous than bears” and in what context was that said?

Also, multi-gender restrooms are exceedingly rare. I think I’ve seen truly multigendered one in my life. Who is advocating for that? Are you referring to individual bathrooms that allow anyone to enter? It’s one room meant for single occupancy.

Edit: in case anyone wants to read the article that I think OP is referencing: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/women-rather-stuck-forest-with-man-bear-3019615

rab OP ,

At my university there are multi gender washrooms all over campus. They have been modified so that there is a wall around the unirals to obstruct view but otherwise same as a regular washroom meant for one gender. Signs have been replaced with "all-gender washroom" and another note saying "this washroom has stalls" or "this washroom has stalls and urinals"

I'm not against this in the slightest but the same blue-haired people who made this happen are all over social media right now claiming they would rather be in the woods with a random bear than a random man

jeffw ,

Funny, visiting someone else’s university is where I saw that. It was a highly regarded liberal arts college in New England. Still, I’d call that super rare.

The bear thing seems a bit exaggerated. Not sure what hair color has to do with this

rab OP ,

Not sure what hair color has to do with this

I'm saying that the ultra left people you usually see with dyed hair are the people who advocate for multi gender washrooms, are the same people so loud on social media right now about how dangerous men are

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Step outside of your house and take a walk around the block and enjoy the sunshine.

It sounds like right wing media has got you all worked up about nothing.

rab OP ,

Well the issue I have with the question is I spend a lot of time in the wilderness, have had close encounters with actual bears

I have a lot of lady solo hiker friends and none of them have EVER had a strange encounter with a random man in the woods

The question is triggering to me because

  • I'm disappointed in the common man
  • I'm disappointed in the constant battle of genders
  • I'm disappointed in the absolute lack of any common sense (bears are more dangerous than men, full stop)
SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

bears are more dangerous than men, full stop

Bears are well known to start wars and possess nuclear warheads.

rab OP ,

Literally every person who said bear, if actually found in this hypothetical situation, would say man 100% of the time and I'd bet all my money on it

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Literally every person who said bear, if actually found in this hypothetical situation, would say man 100% of the time and I’d bet all my money on it

Wait, are you saying man is more dangerous than bears?

rab OP ,

They would rather wake up in the woods next to a random man 100% of the time

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I imagine some women would be okay with waking up beside a random man in the woods but to say 100% of women would is just ignorant.

rab OP ,

And I imagine that 100% of women would not be ok with waking up next to a random bear like they so confidently claim they would prefer

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

How many women have you asked?

rab OP ,

I haven't met a woman yet who says man

I'm saying they are liars though

The hypothetical situation is this (correct me if wrong): you wake up in the woods, 20ft to your right is a bear and 20ft to you left is some man you don't know

You mean they are going to take the right hand path here? Really? I don't believe them

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I'd walk either straight forwards or backwards but that's just me.

xmunk ,

Being triggered by the question is perfectly reasonable. It was a dumb proposition that was insanely hyperbolic. Obviously, most men won't attack women out of the blue and bears are objectively dangerous (it's not like if you see one you're dead but if you don't respect the danger you're an idiot).

I wouldn't worry what this article implies and I wouldn't take it personally because it's dumb. I don't know you but it's unlikely you're more dangerous to a woman than a bear... the author chose a really poor way to express themselves and you don't have to let them define you.

Also, yea, it fucking sucks that so many women (people even, of both genders) are assaulted by men. We've got a really serious social problem and we need to work together to solve it. Hyperbolic accusations don't help build that trust network - they just tear it down.

rab OP ,

I wouldn’t worry what this article implies

Normally I would take this route but man, I'm all all kinds of social media platforms (stupidly) and my feeds are full of misandry right now. I have to say it has me feeling down. To me I see it as confirmation that men really are completely worthless in society at this point

xmunk ,

Also - I'd suggest reading a sibling post by Jeffw - they dug up the whole actual article and it isn't that unreasonable. I'd been working off the title (and it's an awful title) but the contents are alright.

Lastly, please remember that you don't have to engage with any of this - you can go for a walk, play a game, do some wood working -whatever. If you're feeling stressed by the internet it is perfectly reasonable to disengage to protect your sanity.

Devi ,

I have a lot of lady solo hiker friends and none of them have EVER had a strange encounter with a random man in the woods

That is either untrue or you know like two women. It's super common for lone women to have strange encounters with random men.

rab OP ,

Depends on where you live I guess

xmunk ,

If you ever want to type "blue-haired people" and aren't literally talking about people with blue hair please take a moment and realize you're probably better off not typing anything at all.

rab OP ,

Are you really denying that blue hair hasn't become symbolism of a certain identity movement

xmunk ,

No, I'm not denying that. There has been a strong push to form that association... but it's a childish, surface level ad-hominem attack that we shouldn't perpetuate.

rab OP ,

I have a lot of friends who dyed their hair blue because they are indeed extremely left wing lol, and they would be proud that people associate blue hair with that

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ea8d4032-320d-4eca-971a-48f2c5e7b7b4.webp

rab OP ,

Damn the blue and teal contrast really works, he should do this

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

There was one twitter post on Lemmy's front page yesterday and that's big enough of a sample size for me.

xmunk ,

A very hyperbolic feminist journalist and, look, I get that most men are unaware of how anxious we can inadvertently make women feel but hyperbole doesn't help foster a productive conversation.

Here's one thread on it: https://lemmy.world/post/14872533

jeffw , (edited )

Did you read the article? It doesn’t seem hyperbolic. Just an explanation with humor.

This should be a very easy question! I want to say the man, I really do, but I can’t shake the idea that I would be safer with the bear. I am not sure if it is men or bears that are being most maligned in all of this, but there is no denying that is this a very revealing question

The beauty of the question lies in its vagueness because that forces you to work with averages. On average, is a woman safer in the woods with a man or a bear?

Let’s start with the bears. Bear attacks are highly sensationalised but rare… Black bears attack and kill around one human per year in America, and because of humans encroaching on their territories, black bear attacks are on the rise in Japan.

Bears generally leave humans alone and will alter their behaviour to avoid us where possible.

On average, two women per week are murdered by their partner or ex-partner in the UK. According to the UN, 55 per cent of all female homicides worldwide are committed by intimate partners or other family members, at a rate of five deaths every single hour.

71 per cent of women of all ages in the UK have experienced some form of sexual harassment in a public space

A bear will act like a bear. It’s predictable and it’s going to avoid you if it can. It’s not going to pester you for a date and then monologue about the Godfather trilogy.

Then there is the fact that if I was attacked by a bear, no one would tell me I was making it up. I wouldn’t be asked what I was wearing, if I was drunk, or what I had done to provoke the bear

humans kill far more bears every year than the other way around. The thought experiment is fun but flawed as it sets up a false dichotomy. Humans don’t live in close proximity with bears like we do with each other. … what the question does is expose is the fact for many women, a strange man in the woods is still an obvious threat.

It literally walks you through the points and ends on a realistic, somber note.

rab OP ,

The beauty of the question lies in its vagueness because that forces you to work with averages. On average, is a woman safer in the woods with a man or a bear?

Average woman crosses paths with hundreds of thousands of men in their life

Average woman likely never sees a bear in their life even once

Hmm I wonder why you can find more examples of male violence??

A bear will act like a bear. It’s predictable and it’s going to avoid you if it can. It’s not going to pester you for a date and then monologue about the Godfather trilogy.

Meanwhile like half of recorded bear attacks are nightmare fuel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

jeffw ,

Maybe you missed my edit where I included the ending. You definitely missed the main point of the article

rab OP ,

Yeah I missed your edit

Ok so they are scared of men so would rather be eaten by a bear. I don't see that as somber I see that as a lack of any common sense and it also makes me feel sad that we are this disconnected from nature

Do these folks know what happens when you see a bear? The fight or flight response your body has is ridiculous. Because evolution has it baked into our brains that bear = danger. I mean the last time I was charged by a bear, the guy I was with actually pissed himself lol

NONE of these women, if actually found in this supposed hypothetical situation, are going to choose bear

xmunk ,

Nope I hadn't, that's actually pretty nuanced and well considered... I've only seen the article linked by title and the title definitely feels like flame bait

RightHandOfIkaros ,

A bear will act like a bear. Its predictable and it's going to avoid you if it can.

Its a wild animal. A bear is no more predictable than a human.

lath ,

Then there is the fact that if I was attacked by a bear, no one would tell me I was making it up. I wouldn’t be asked what I was wearing, if I was drunk, or what I had done to provoke the bear

They are wrong about the latter part. Whenever there's a bear attack, I almost always hear someone asking "What the hell did that idiot do to piss off the bear?".

  • What you're wearing depends on the scent it's carrying. If your clothes smell like food, don't go wandering around bear-infested woods.
  • Drunk people fooling around with bears is far too common to be ignored as a question.
  • Only people who've observed bears for a long period of time can accurately say what provokes a bear to attack and the ones I've asked have said that sometimes you're just shit out of luck.

A bear encounter isn't as clear cut as the text you're quoting would like. Because they do avoid people normally, so meeting one means something is definitely wrong. Good luck figuring out what though.

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