[Serious] Why do so many people seem to hate veganism?

Seen a lot of posts on Lemmy with vegan-adjacent sentiments but the comments are typically very critical of vegan ideas, even when they don't come from vegans themselves. Why is this topic in particular so polarising on the internet? Especially since unlike politics for example, it seems like people don't really get upset by it IRL

kava ,

Veganism is more or less a 1st world phenomenon. Most humans, especially in the past, did not have the luxury to choose what they could eat. They ate what they could get and if they got access to meat and animal products they ate it because it has high nutritional and caloric value. Even the vegetarian Indians who don't eat meat foe religious purposes still have eggs, milk, etc.

It feels disconnected with the human struggle.

In addition, it's sort of meaningless in the grand scheme of things. OK. You don't eat meat to protect domesticated cows. In reality, those cows would not exist in the first place. So really, you're advocating to eliminate the species of domesticated cattle.

In addition, our modern society requires massive amounts of energy which is often generated by fossil fuels. Even if a society uses 100% solar, they're importing products from countries like China that burn coal.

So you're pumping out carbon emissions that will inevitably result in mass extinctions anyway. It seems like a meaningless protest against the inevitable. You say let's exterminate the cows to save them from suffering on one hand and with the other drive to work talking on your iPhone with the A/C turned up- contributing to the destruction of infinitely more animals.

The only real way to stop is for everyone to give up every modern luxury and live in a log cabin in the woods. And for the vast majority of the population to die off.

It just feels like pissing into the void but doing so with moral superiority.

Having said all that, I empathize with many vegans. But those are some thoughts on why people may look down on vegans.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

Wow, you ticked like half of the Vegan Bullshit Bingo.
The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. Please engage, don't just watch. Start wherever you like, but start!

kava ,

I looked through out of curiosity and I believe you can say with a bit of a stretch that I hit about 3.

I'm never going to go vegan. I was raised in a part of South America with a very strong cattle / meat culture. I don't want to live without nice steaks every week.

If that means some animal has to live in what's essentially slavery then it's the price I'm willing to pay.

Just like we're both willing to live with poor 3rd worlders mining lithium and cobalt for us in abysmal conditions so that we can communicate on our fancy electronic devices.

The system is a pyramid. Is it our fault we were born near the top? Reminds me of the part in the Bible, the rich man comes up to Jesus and asks him what he should do to get into heaven

Jesus says "sell all of your belongings, give the money to charity, and follow me". What'd the rich man do? He cried.

The point is that people wanna be good and ethical but don't actually want to give up quality of life. It's not just veganism, it's for everything. Capitalist/imperialist exploitation, climate change, etc.

Try to lead by example, sell your stuff and follow Jesus.

Veraxus ,

To grossly oversimplify things, there are two kinds of vegans...

Type 1 are "healthy living" and "sustainability" vegans. These type are generally benign, polite, helpful, positive, and keep to themselves unless asked. They also tend to not be super militant about their veganism... like the occassional egg from someone's beloved home-raised chickens is fine.

Type 2 are ideological vegans. These types believe that "exploiting" "living creatures" in any way is fundamentally immoral, and because it's a morality issue (e.g. basically religion) the vast majority are very preachy, demanding, and in-your-face about it. They don't consider type 1 to be "real vegans".

Type 2, being the loudest and most abrasive, giving veganism a bad name and ruining it for everyone.

pb42184 ,

I think people hate vegans more than veganism. The most annoying x% makes the other (100-x)% look bad

Choose your own x I don't want dunks from either side lol

FrostKing ,

Because many people see it as political, or at least moral. And that means they want to "pick a side"

postmateDumbass ,

I do not like being told by someone that i need to become vegan because they have become vegan.

WldFyre ,

I don't think you've understood the arguments for veganism lol

Of course proponents of a position/philosophy/political stace also subscribe to those beliefs. There are not many misogynists arguing in favor of feminism.

postmateDumbass ,

Counter argument: Problem is not too many cows. It is too many people.

loudWaterEnjoyer ,
@loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

So just kill yourself then, it's literally that easy? Or are you suggesting to kill other people so you can keep enjoying your McTasty? Carnists are weird AF

postmateDumbass ,

You have restricted your diet, yet the hatred pores from your vegtable fueled/addled brain.

I think you have proven my point.

Thank you.

WldFyre ,

So the answer isn't to eat less animals, it's to kill people to get our population down?

For the record, my wife and I chose to not have kids. And in my experience, usually the people that are gung ho to have a large family and lots of kids are right-wing, meat-loving morons.

loudWaterEnjoyer ,
@loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

How have I proven your point? Your argument was to get rid of people, I just guessed you also offer yourself up? Otherwise what makes you think you can suggest to kill other people?

wolandark ,
@wolandark@lemmy.world avatar

no one hates veganism, we just hate the vegans

Teppichbrand ,

Become a good one then!

Aceticon ,

Imagine that you go to an outdoor barbecue on a bright Summer day.

And some guy who is an extreme Muslim is going around telling some women that they're not dressed in a modest enough way and that everybody should follow the Teachings of the Prophet and how life is a lot better when people follow the Teachings of the Prophet.

It's not Islam that's the problem, it's certain kinds of people, their proselytising and, worse, their trying to force or even impose their own moral values on others.

Same with Veganism and some kinds of Vegans: because it's a moral choice some of those who practice it have the very same behavioural disfunctions as religious nutters and because they're the most visible representatives of it they just cause many to draw negative conclusions about the entire thing.

blackris ,

The problem is: most times it works the other way. You are at a barbeque and bring your own stuff. There are always people who feel obliged to talk shit about you – or worse, cannot shut up about their own meat consumption, how they only buy the „good“ meat and only seldom, but how hard it would be without cheese and so on.

Yeah, there are some preaching vegans, but those few are not the reason why some people are hating on us.

HelixDab2 ,

I'm married to a vegetarian that used to be vegan. They saw far, far more preaching vegans than not. Many vegans believe that militancy is required, in the same way that anti-abortion activists believe that mobbing women at clinics is the only moral choice.

jo3rn ,

Now imagine there's an outdoor barbecue and you're a pig and the only person speaking up for you is disregarded by everybody else as a dysfunctional nutter.

Aceticon ,

So are you saying that that following the Teachings Of The Prophet on how a woman should dress in a modest way and in all other thinks in life, alhamdulillah, is less important than speaking for a pig!!!???

RIPandTERROR ,
@RIPandTERROR@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I think a lot of people also have a hard time seeing it as a priority for themselves compared to their personal problems and other ongoings. It's subjective, sure. But it also takes a ton of personal responsibility and self control/denial to change habits.

Bottom line, there is a lot of things out there to care about right now, and being vegan is a big change for a lot of people. That, mixed with the extreme (understandable) feelings about mistreatment of animals by vegans, often leads to a feeling of repulsion from investing personal bandwidth into changing the behavior.

That's my opinion based on growing up with religiously vegan parents.

Ragnarok314159 ,

They also view it as a silver bullet solution to most of the world’s climate problems. I have heard and read so many of them say how if everyone were vegan, pollution would almost disappear overnight and the earth would be saved.

They of course are the loudest vegans possible and make the rest look bad.

Teppichbrand ,

Were you raised vegan from birth? Are you still vegan? Asking out of curiosity.

RIPandTERROR ,
@RIPandTERROR@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar
  1. yes 2) no

It was a seventh day Adventist situation.

That being said, I don't like animals hurting and I generally opt for vegan/vegetarian options when available since there's often the option, but of the many worthy fights out there, this is how much emotional currency I'm able to spend. Wish it was easier.

Unfortunately jerky also makes for a great weight loss option so I get that from time to time. I understand why die hard vegans feel the way they do and I heavily empathize and want to contribute to a more progressive tomorrow, but I'm unwilling to invest my limited energy further than where I am now.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Half my social circle has gone vegan at this point and I think a lot of the anti-vegan sentiments is people don't like modifying their behaviour to give up their own comfort even when they know something is distressing to someone else. Since a lot of vegans see a very real cruelty that they are generally powerless to stop and other people do not understand their reactions to seeing other people participate in cruelty is often to feel very sad. Since so much of human culture surrounds shared meals having a vegan takes a lot of options off the table entirely and alters other people's options even when they don't intend to.

Like it's not a matter of "well we'll go to your vegetarian restaurant this time and next time we go to a place I'm excited to go" for those of us who care about our friends being upset we basically rarely pick our first choices and more often sacrifice things we are excited for in the name of someone else's comfort. It can be a love language to find restaurants and eat the things on the menu that don't exactly thrill you but other times you just want to have that selfish Birthday dinner where you don't feel compelled to pick a restaurant for someone else.

I think a lot of people reject veganism more forcefully because they don't want to have to participate in that sort of friction. All it takes is one ethical vegan to completly change a friend groups food culture. Even when they bring their own food and try not to make a big deal and mask it not bothering them when they see meat being consumed people are generally compelled to care for people they know and ignoring someone's distress isn't showing care. When people ratchet up the social cost of veganism they are more often than not trying to engineer a social sphere where they do not feel callous, don't have to give up what they like and don't have to do any additional research work or social calculations .

FunnyUsername ,
@FunnyUsername@lemmy.world avatar

I can barely afford Perkins let alone a vegan restaurant.

Having morals is not cheap. I feel for you having to see other people eat food they can afford, that must be really hard, but a lot of people literally DON'T have the luxury, calorie to dollar, to be vegan. And no, eating rice and beans every day is not an acceptable diet.

Drivebyhaiku ,

Uh... Was this in response to the right post? I am not vegan nor do I wish to be and I never mentioned anything about rice and beans...

rudyharrelson ,
@rudyharrelson@kbin.social avatar

I don't necessarily agree that being vegetarian/vegan is inherently more expensive than being an omnivore, but I'd like to point out the meat industry receives a lot of government subsidies (at least in the USA) and that helps keep costs down. Vegetarian/Vegan options would be more affordable if they got the same government subsidies as the beef industry. Sure, things like corn/wheat/soybeans receive decent subsidies, but most of that is for feeding, you guessed it, livestock.

FunnyUsername ,
@FunnyUsername@lemmy.world avatar

Many people don't even live by a store with anything other than over ripe bananas and Apples. People don't all live in cities with Uber eats delivering organics from target. For MANY people, increasing their plant intake would mean literally starting a farm at home (quite the chore!), hour commutes, or relying on canned goods.

I eat a lot of fruits and veggies, because I'm fortunate enough to have moved out of one of these produce black holes. But baby carrots, canned corn, and frozen broccoli really gets old when that's all that's there. Forever.

Meat is good for quite a long time if frozen.

starelfsc2 ,

It takes a "special" kind of person to take something so ingrained in culture and still say "I'm not gonna do that," usually a slightly crazy and/or neurodivergent person. I think this is partly why there are so many "insane" vegans, because it's self selecting for people who are outside the norm.

I don't even mention to most people I'm vegan, usually just an excuse like "meat makes me feel sick" because the average person will think I'm going to give them a 20 minute lecture.

To anyone who is the vegan who will give the 20 minute lecture, please consider if your goal is actually animal welfare, you can hardly ever debate someone out of something they like. Instead, just show people easy dishes you made that they actually enjoy (pasta with spaghetti sauce, French fries, vegetable stir fry, roasted veggies with olive oil) and you'll often find they start cooking more vegan food (or at least less meat), and also talk more positively about veganism

Emmie , (edited )

It’s because people feel threatened. Vegans indirectly say „you meat eaters are the baddies” no one wants to be the baddies. But… instead of putting effort to change to vegan, the easier and lazier thing to do is to paint them as mad, bad, cult, in the mind.

And also some of the vegans really ride a high horse and behave all pure and that stuff is making it easier. Some vegans really do it to get moral high and have superiority syndrome.

I am not vegan but I managed to curb these coded in ape brain mechanisms somewhat.

AMDIsOurLord ,

Because you're annoying ass fucking puritans

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

Because the morals is on their side. Society should be disrupted everyday until animal exploitation ends.

Sniatch ,

Funny is that I have only seen Anti Vegan threads on here. Like, who is the annoying one?

rudyharrelson ,
@rudyharrelson@kbin.social avatar

People complaining all day long about "annoying militant vegans" but have apparently never met the equally annoying, militant meat-lovers who deludedly believe the liberals are gonna make burgers illegal. Sure, I find opinionated vegans as annoying as the next guy, but I've met way, waaaay more annoying, militant Americans who would rather die than eat one less angus burger per month when their doctor recommends it to help prevent cardiac disease.

Like they'd literally rather die in their 50's than cut out a few burgers from their diet. It's nuts.

Lhianna ,

I have no issues with veganism but I do have issues with being attacked because I'm not vegan. I've been attacked for using cow milk even after explaining that I can't use plant milk because of sensory issues.

Funnily enough, just like you said, I know vegans IRL who would never behave that way and of course I accommodate their dietary choices when I'm in charge of food.

I think it's mostly an Internet thing when you just see the loudest minority instead of the more quiet majority.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

I've been attacked for using cow milk

How do they even oppose THAT?

HelixDab2 ,

It's not like the dairy industry is cruelty-free, y'know. Cows need to be given hormones in order to lactate constantly, and once they get past the age where they can be milked, what do you think happens to them?

I'm neither vegetarian nor vegan, but I think people need to recognize where their food comes from, and that it's not all sunshine and roses.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

You want the red pill or the blue pill?
Both clips are less then 5 minutes, red is a little graphic, blue an abstract animation.

ZMoney ,

I love how people try to make this some kind of cultural issue about picking restaurants or providing options. Anybody who spends 5 minutes looking into the industry will realize it goes against basic human decency.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

Yeah, I'm surprised how many comments are not even trying to understand anything. The information is only one click away, from credible sources.
Feels like talking to an army of 12 year olds.

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