rbesfe ,

Firing on innocent merchant ships is despicable regardless of which country they're owned by. The crews on those ships aren't the ones perpetuating a genocide.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Nobody is forcing these ships to sail through the sovereign territorial waters of Yemen which is where they are being interdicted.

rbesfe ,

The al-mandeb falls under the general regime of international straits, so no adjacent country can use their territorial claims to prevent passage of ships. Or are you one of those nine dash line kind of people?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Territorial sea is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22 km; 14 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e77fb66f-993d-49b8-9a4f-bb4f45137dff.png

rbesfe , (edited )

Yes congratulations on learning how to use wikipedia, now look up the general regime on straits. Almost there, buddy.

You know what, I'm sure you'll have trouble doing actual research so I did it for you

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part3.htm

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Once you bother actually reading your link, you'll note the part about innocent passage there. Yemen considers itself to be at war with Israel and the entities backing it.

rbesfe ,

Everyone else on the planet considers merchant ships to be innocent passage by default regardless of cargo or destination. I can smell the copium through my screen, and I'm not sure why you so badly want to defend the attacks against unarmed vessels that are not even carrying weapons. Find a better hill to die on.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Innocent merchant ships from countries that aren't participating in a genocide, such as ones from China, have no problems getting passage regardless of cargo or destination. All the western countries have to do is to stop participating in a genocide of Palestinian people.

Seems like all you're doing here is projecting your own copium onto others. If the hill you're choosing to die on is that there shouldn't be any consequences for committing a genocide, then what else is there to say about you.

rbesfe , (edited )

Cargo ships do not participate in genocide, you simpleton. The depth of human stupidity will never cease to amaze me

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Countries operating those cargo ships do participate in the genocide. The sheer irony that you can't wrap your head around that while talking about the depth of human stupidity.

rbesfe , (edited )

The MV rubymar is (was) a ship owned by a UK company. Explain to me why those crew deserved to die. Not just some vague handwavy "they support a genocide", I want a real argument from you for once.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

UK supplies weapons to Israel and is a direct participant in the genocide. Yemen made it very clear that they would not allow the ships through their waters, and they gave plenty of warnings to the ship to turn around. Explain why the crew chose to risk their lives and ignore clear instructions not to sail through Yemeni waters. I want a real argument from you for once.

Alsephina ,

UK ships have literally been posing as Chinese ones recently to try getting through lol

Russian and Chinese ships are being let through for the most part since they've stopped supplying "israel" through the red sea as the Yemeni government has decreed.

geneva_convenience ,

Nice

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

Good

Kusimulkku ,

Did something special happen? Haven't they been targeting boats for a while now

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

just the most recent

Kusimulkku ,

I'm just surprised they're still writing articles about individual attacks especially if nothing more special happened

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

It just shows that Yemen is still interdicting ships and that US isn't able to do anything about it. That of itself is noteworthy.

Kusimulkku ,

I mean it's showing they haven't completely stopped them for sure but I'm not sure if someone expected them to.

That of itself is noteworthy.

Ehh I dunno. It's not like every single terrorist attack in Iraq was noteworthy, at least not international news noteworthy imo.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

They literally accomplished nothing. US hasn't managed to protect a single ship to date. Meanwhile, countries participating in the genocide are seeing real economic damage as a result of the blockade. The fact that US is no longer able to project power the way it used to is very much noteworthy.

Kusimulkku , (edited )

How do we know their strikes haven't protected any ships, that is, preventing any strikes from happening?

Not to mention, what about the failed strikes their defence systems (against their ships) that they have succesfully defeated? They've shot down some missiles from what I remember. Or do you just mean civilian ships?

The fact that US is no longer able to project power the way it used to is very much noteworthy.

They have quite a few naval ships and planes I think Yemen right now?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

We know that because western ships aren't able to take this route successfully. Western ships either go around or they get attacked at which point they either end up being sunk or turn around. The impact is very visible https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/mi/research-analysis/supply-chain-red-sea-shipping-disruptions-impact.html

Yemen doesn't need naval ships or planes. They have missiles and drones which is enough to cover the area. Meanwhile, even US military is now complaining that shooting multi million dollar missiles at thousand dollar drones is not practical. The whole US strategy is being invalidated by new technology. US navy is a dinosaur.

Kusimulkku , (edited )

I mean the route still not being safe for shipping doesn't mean they have no impact. Just not enough to make it safe.

Yemen doesn't need naval ships or planes

Not that those would do them any good, they'd get wrecked. Much better off with lobbing rockets. It's like Iraq terrorists and using roadside bombs instead of something like tanks. That'd make no sense.

The whole US strategy is being invalidated by new technology. US navy is a dinosaur.

True. This and Ukraine war has kinda shown how poorly a traditional navy works against drones especially. But I think Somali boat attacks and stuff like that is an even older example of how hard that sort of uneven fighting is.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I mean the route still not being safe for shipping doesn’t mean they have no impact. Just not enough to make it safe.

What impact are they having, please be specific here.

Not that those would do them any good, they’d get wrecked. Much better off with lobbing rockets. It’s like Iraq terrorists and using roadside bombs instead of something like tanks. That’d make no sense.

Sure, US can beat a navy that plays by the same rules, but the reality is that there are cheaper options available nowadays.

So far, the story is that Yemen is achieving their stated goals and US is not.

Kusimulkku ,

What impact are they having, please be specific here.

Destroying parts of the Houthi capability, shooting down missiles and drones.

Sure, US can beat a navy that plays by the same rules, but the reality is that there are cheaper options available nowadays.

Yes that's what I meant with this: "True. This and Ukraine war has kinda shown how poorly a traditional navy works against drones especially. But I think Somali boat attacks and stuff like that is an even older example of how hard that sort of uneven fighting is."

So far, the story is that Yemen is achieving their stated goals and US is not.

I mean if the goal was to make products more expensive then absolutely.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

No actual evidence that US managed to destroy parts of Yemeni capability. Shooting down missiles and drones isn't having an impact because shipping is still being interdicted.

And yes, that was literally the goal stated by Ansar Allah, they're blockading shipping from Israel and countries that support Israel in solidarity with Palestine. Their blockade is achieving economic damage.

Kusimulkku ,

No actual evidence that US managed to destroy parts of Yemeni capability.

But Houthis have confirmed some of the strikes. Not everything, there's of course plenty of strikes they haven't confirmed but that were confirmed by satellite. I'm not sure either side would claim the strikes have had no impact, just that Houthis think they can continue this longer than the US can.

And yes, that was literally the goal stated by Ansar Allah, they’re blockading shipping from Israel and countries that support Israel in solidarity with Palestine. Their blockade is achieving economic damage.

In that case they've set a pretty reasonable and achievable goal. I thought the object was to stop the Israel attack on Palestine or something tbh.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

US and Saudis have been trying to bomb Yemen into submission for like 8 years now with nothing to show for it. I don't see why a few more air strikes are going to change anything.

Kusimulkku ,

What part are you replying to with this?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I'm referring to US doing strikes in Yemen, this is nothing new and this strategy showed no results over past 8 years. No reason to expect anything different going forward.

Kusimulkku ,

Right, you're talking about who lasts longer? I thought you were talking about the no impact thing and was confused.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

It's both, Yemenis have shown that they've been able to last for 8 years without any clear impact from the bombing strategy. The impact from Yemeni blockade is visible, we see economic costs for the west. The impact from bombing in terms of Yemen being able to pursue its policies is not clear because we don't see their policies change or become less effective.

Kusimulkku ,

So when you meant no impact you were thinking of in the way that if they can still shoot missiles that means there has been no impact?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Right, I'm saying the strikes are not achieving a change in behavior or capability. So, there is no impact in terms of what Yemen is doing whether US carries strikes out or not.

Kusimulkku ,

I guess I thought you meant the strikes were having no impact as in genuinely zero impact

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I mean, I'm sure they're having impact killing civilians and destroying infrastructure in Yemen.

Kusimulkku , (edited )

Missile firing infrastructure and capability is sorta the target. Luckily first civilian death was just yesterday and so far I think that's the only one.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

If missile firing infrastructure is the target, then it's pretty clear that US is not capable of doing any meaningful damage to this infrastructure. Again, the original point was that US is unable to achieve its stated goals while Yemen is.

Kusimulkku ,

Yes, I just misunderstood it as a more literal "no impact" than what you were saying.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Operation genocide guardian is going real well.

deft ,

How come whenever someone brings up Tiananmen Square to you, you just wanna blame Americans but don't ever talk about the fact human beings were run over by tanks or shot at? Why is that never part of your conversation?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Because there is a ton of factual evidence showing that Tiananmen Square was a color revolution that US tried to run in China. Also, literally nobody was run over by tanks at the Tiananmen Square. The only conversation to have here is about why you're spreading easily disproved propaganda here for the empire?

https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/

deft ,

I've read this the last time you posted it. Nothing is said here literally. There is no verifiable information that proves any narrative you've asserted and it doesn't even talk about the event or why tanks were in the square at all. Why were the tanks there?

Beyond that. Yes people absolutely were run over by tanks.

http://www.cnd.org/June4th/photos/mascr016.gif

why were there armored vehicles in the square?

https://chinhdangvu1.blogspot.com/2017/12/chinese-barbarity-at-least-10000-people.html?m=1

and where are Fang Zheng's legs?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_Zheng

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve read this the last time you posted it. Nothing is said here literally.

The fact that you say that clearly shows that you're just here to troll and not interested in having a genuine discussion of the subject. You just want to peddle your atrocity propaganda here. Again, how morally bankrupt does one have to be to shill for the empire like that.

deft ,

Argue the content stop running away you do this every time which is why it happens this way. Proving you a liar isn't trolling.

So why were tanks there? Where are that man's legs? Explain these photos? Why were the students in the square? What were they hunger striking for?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I'm not running away form anything. I've explained to you that US tried to run a color revolution in China which failed. I've provided you with a source that documents the chain of events and references primary sources documenting these events. The reason the students were in the square is explained in great detail in the link I gave you and you obviously failed to read (twice by your own account).

Here's a different source with even more information, and even some pictures for people with poor reading comprehension
https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/06/02/tiananmen-square-massacre-facts-fiction-and-propaganda/

So maybe take your own advice, stop running away and start engaging with the actual facts instead of doing low effort trolling.

deft ,

lmfao everyone look at this shit

that link is so desperate for proof. They link articles from Wikipedia, Wikipedia will also inform you the Massacre happened.

It quotes these articles, this is also what you find throughout both links he provided.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm

There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre.

The shorthand we often use of the "Tiananmen Square protests" of 1989 gives the impression that this was just a Beijing issue. It was not.

Protests occurred in almost every city in China (even in a town on the edge of the Gobi desert).

What happened in 1989 was by far the most widespread pro-democracy upheaval in communist China's history. It was also by far the bloodiest suppression of peaceful dissent.

James Miles is now the Beijing correspondent of The Economist, and author of The Legacy of Tiananmen: China in Disarray (University of Michigan Press, 1996).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/there-was-no-tiananmen-square-massacre/

Some have found it uncomfortable that all this conforms with what the Chinese government has always claimed, perhaps with a bit of sophistry: that there was no "massacre in Tiananmen Square."

But there's no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square, and on the way to it — mostly in the western part of Beijing. Maybe, for some, comfort can be taken in the fact that the government denies that, too.

This story was filed by CBS News correspondent Richard Roth, who was detained by Chinese authorities for 20 hours on June 4, 1989, while covering the Tiananmen Square "crackdown".

The entire argument is no media personnel saw the events in Tianamen Square, THE SPECIFIC SQUARE, so calling it the Tiananmen Square Massacre is a lie since nobody saw anyone be massacred in THE SPECIFIC SQUARE. But read the accounts yourself, they say absolutely there was a very violent crackdown and many people were killed.

These are links YOU provided and this is all you find on these two links YOU provided. It is so weak flimsy and pathetic. Sure nobody saw a massacre in the square specifically but we know it was a bloody crackdown.

Where are Fang Zheng's legs bro?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fang_Zheng

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I love how you're utterly unable to engage with the subject, and just keep spamming your propaganda outlets.

The entire argument is no media personnel saw the events in Tianamen Square, THE SPECIFIC SQUARE, so calling it the Tiananmen Square Massacre is a lie since nobody saw anyone be massacred in THE SPECIFIC SQUARE. But read the accounts yourself, they say absolutely there was a very violent crackdown and many people were killed.

What are you even smoking, there's even a documentary published on this in China

https://web.archive.org/web/20200604205421/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDMXV1smwR0

These are links YOU provided and this is all you find on these two links YOU provided. It is so weak flimsy and pathetic. Sure nobody saw a massacre in the square specifically but we know it was a bloody crackdown.

What specifically is "flimsy" and "pathetic" in the links I provided. Everything the links say is backed by actual facts and primary sources in those links. You have not addressed a single thing in those links.

It's quite hilarious how you trolls are only able to follow the script you memorized and aren't actually capable of discussing the topic intelligently. Even ChatGTP could come up with a more intelligent response than this. 😂

deft ,

Those are your sources I'm using lol

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

And you're ignoring the relevant parts because they don't fit with your trolling agenda lol

deft ,

They are the sources of your alleged sources.

They're painting a false picture that's easily seen through once you follow their sources which is what I posted

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

The only one painting a false picture here is you, and you're doing a transparently bad job of it. Get a better script for your trolling.

deft ,

this is YOUR INFORMATION

stop being mad at me for quoting your sources and I'll do it again next time so get better material

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, my information that you're cherry picking because you're a troll with an agenda. You're not fooling anybody here.

iknt ,

Are random blogs can be cited now?

From the same blog:
Made In China Pandemic https://chinhdangvu1.blogspot.com/2020/02/made-in-china-pandemic_24.html?m=1
People's Republic of Coronavirus https://chinhdangvu1.blogspot.com/2020/02/peoples-republic-of-coronavirus_24.html?m=1

The source is very questionable when the whole blog's purpose is "China bad".

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

How is this comment relevant to the topic?

deft ,

It pertains to the person bringing this topic here? Who are you?

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

Why are you asking? Are you associated with the authorities?

deft ,

Are you? Because you seem to always show up defending the same shit just like OP.

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

My authorities spent 9 years or so fighting Ansar Allah, I have to ask whenever someone asks who am I.

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